Dts Trading System Gjennomgang

Ryder System, Inc. Common Stock Quote Sammendrag Data Firma Beskrivelse (som arkivert med SEC) Ryder System, Inc. (Ryder) er en global leder innen transport og supply chain management løsninger. Våre driftssegmenter aggregeres i rapporterbare forretningssegmenter basert på tilsvarende økonomiske egenskaper, produkter, tjenester, kunder og leveringsmetoder. Vi rapporterer vår økonomiske utvikling basert på tre forretningssegmenter: (1) Fleet Management Solutions (FMS), som tilbyr full service leasing, kommersiell utleie, kontraktsvedlikehold og kontraktsrelatert vedlikehold av lastebiler, traktorer og tilhengere til kunder, hovedsakelig i USA Canada og Storbritannia (2) DTS, som gir biler og drivere som en del av en dedikert transportløsning i USA og (3) SCS, som tilbyr omfattende leverandørkjedeløsninger, inkludert distribusjon og transporttjenester i Nord-Amerika og Asia. Mer. Risikovurdering Hvor passer R inn i risikograven Konsensus Anbefaling Tilleggsinfo Analyst Info Forskningsmiljøer før du handler Ønsker du å handle FX Rediger Favoritter Skriv inn opptil 25 symboler skilt med komma eller mellomrom i tekstboksen under. Disse symbolene vil være tilgjengelige under økten din for bruk på aktuelle sider. Tilpass din NASDAQ-opplevelse Bakgrunnsfargevelger Velg bakgrunnsfargen du ønsker: Quote Search Velg en standard målside for ditt sittsøk: Realtid etter timer Førmarkedet Nyheter Flash Quote Sammendrag Sitat Interaktive diagrammer Standardinnstilling Vær oppmerksom på at når du har laget Ditt valg, det gjelder for alle fremtidige besøk på NASDAQ. Hvis du, når som helst, er interessert i å gå tilbake til standardinnstillingene, velg Standardinnstilling ovenfor. Hvis du har spørsmål eller støter på problemer ved å endre standardinnstillingene, vennligst send epost til isfeedbacknasdaq. Vennligst bekreft ditt valg: Du har valgt å endre standardinnstillingen for Quote Search. Dette vil nå være din standardmålside, med mindre du endrer konfigurasjonen din igjen, eller du sletter informasjonskapslene dine. Er du sikker på at du vil endre innstillingene dine Vi har en tjeneste å spørre Vennligst deaktiver annonseblokkeren din (eller oppdater innstillingene dine for å sikre at javascript og informasjonskapsler er aktivert), slik at vi kan fortsette å gi deg de førsteklasses markedsnyheter og data du har kommet til å forvente fra oss. Når jeg lukket bakdøren til toppspecifik Cadillac DTS, så jeg sidelyset over hodet mitt bokstavelig talt sputter og dør. Og der har du det: Bevis positivt at bønne tellere har vært hardt på jobb på The General39s luksusmerke. Du vil at lysene forsvinner sakte opp og ned Hvorfor uansett, har vi ikke den delen. Hva mer trenger du Egentlig, til tross for død med tusen kostnadsbesparelser, har DTS nesten nok eksklusive mojo å gjøre det. Bare luksuscarmaking er ikke hestesko eller håndgranater. Nesten donrsquot teller. La meg være klar: Cadillac isnrsquot Audi, BMW, Lexus eller Mercedes. Før jeg illustrerer dette punktet i deprimerende detalj, herersquos, hva jeg vil ha ut av en Caddy: Texaguido-stil, en magisk teppe-tur, nok plass til å skille kona og tre fullvoksne barn, og en trunk thatrsquoll passer to døde Mafiosi. Thatrsquos det. Thatrsquos alt en Cadillac må gjøre for å tjene min respekt. Alt annet er fint, men overskudd til krav. DTS mislykkes ved første forhindring. Hva er denne tingen Mens brandrsquos-nesen er særegen nok, viser den utstående femmile-per-timers støtfangeren (husk dem) en slags dårlig syntetisert graftwerk. De fire dørene på baksiden har all den onde sjarmen av Joseph Stalin's limo. Sedanrsquos profilen tilbyr den eneste side-on sheetmetal Irsquove noensinne har sett thatrsquos mer generisk enn en Toyota Cressida. Performance Packrsquos 18rsquos går tapt i hjulbrønnene og de skinnende legeringene er heslige. DTS er basert på GMrsquos vintage G-plattform med forhjulsdrift, og understøtter også den fenomenalt mislykkede Buick Lucerne. Gå inn i hytta, og ulemper er umiddelbart åpenbare. Selv om de fremre stolene er store nok til inveterate pasta-narkomane, begrenser den begrensede ryggbredden kapasitet til to godt matede paesaner. På den positive siden er anilin Tehama-læret vidunderlig mykt og støttende8211, men ikke så velduftende som den vanlige kuhuden. Faktisk, itrsquos luktfri. Denne samme anodyne karakter og mangel på oppmerksomhet på detaljer gjelder for resten av DTSrsquo interiøret. Knapper smekker med all presisjon av et borswana-hærboringslag. Den beige hard touch plasten, fotgjenger-lette målere og billig ass dør ajar bong alle snakker språket av leiebil helvete. Det er rikelig med fete rike fyrleker som tilbys: Fjernstart, Intellibeam forlygtsystem (automatisk fjernlysstrålebryter), regnavkjenningsviskere osv. Men setemassasjeren som forsiktig irriterer den nedre ryggraden, belyser DTSrsquo-underlaget. Heldigvis kjører dyret godt. Selv etter 15 år er Caddyrsquos Northstar V8 en juvel. 4.6-liters ingenersquos pitted mot 4000 lbs. (pluss Florida pensjonister, goombas, gjengebangers, golfkøller, AK47rsquos, etc.). Likevel er Performance Packrsquos 292hp nok juice for tankeløst rask utvikling. (Selv om DTS er tregere enn den lettere Lucerne.) Gassresponsen er eksemplarisk, bremsene fungerer og Northstar gir en nydelig liten grøling når den blir provosert. Til tross for sin neses store forhjulsdrevkasse, viser DTS-hjørnene raskt8211 uten 70rsquos-politimann dekk eller naturskjønne undersøkelser. Alle roser GMrsquos magnetisk kjøring, noe som nesten eliminerer kroppens magre. Dessverre er DTSrsquo numb (men nøyaktig) styring en killjoy, og de flate, puffete seter sørger for at raske venstre hjørner forlater kinnmerket mot laminerte glass. I en rett linje er støtbekjempelse merkekompliant8211, men ikke uten en liten bruddpåvirkning over dårlige overflater (og merkbart mindre Novocained i lavere spec-modeller). Ved 80mph krysser DTS cruise serenely8211 bortsett fra litt vindstøy rundt frontvinduet og en merkelig pulserende følelse gjennom skovlen. Med bare en fire-trinns Hydramatic girkasse bytte cogs, betyr motorvei overtakelse mye støy og liten alacrity. Og så til kofferten, hvis lokk svinger så fritt som medlemmer av The Black Key Club. Ja, itrsquos stor (stammen). Men itrsquos stygg. Kanskje det eneste som er nestier enn DTSrsquo Mouse Pelt headliner, er den rancede kaninpelsen som dekker bakkanten. Og så therersquos bagasjerommet. God idé: kaninpels på den ene siden, gummi på den andre (for ldquowet workrdquo). Men fargene donrsquot matcher. Og der ligger fortellingen. Ikke tankene DTSrsquo po-faced design. Ikke bry deg om mangelen på interiørforbedring. Itrsquos åpenbare Cadillac canrsquot blir plaget til å svette de små greiene. Hvis du klokker på DTSrsquo-prisen mot en samme størrelse, tilsvarende utrustet tysk eller japansk rival, vil 41k og opp Caddy være det laveste priset alternativet, med en stor margin uten incentiver. Så hva DTS er ikke så god bil. Selv innenfor sitt eget oppdrag, blir det kort. Med mindre GM stopper å stive Cadillacrsquos designere og ingeniører, med mindre de begynner med et rent papirark, har merkevaren nok en gang toppet. Når caddy kom ut med dagens deville (nå reskinned som dts) i 2000 ble jeg skuffet over det store på utsiden små på innsiden av kroppen. Knærne dine (jeg, m 6821748243) klemmer konsollen, du kan strekke deg ut bak en høy sjåfør, og hele greia kommer også så liten innvendig. Jeg la merke til Lesabers og andre gm-biler med full størrelse hadde dårlig emballasje. Jeg får det, uten at det er behov for bakhjulsdrift og tranny inntrengninger, kommer de opp med mindre innvendig plass enn den gamle fleetwood rwd. Jeg håper at den nye generasjonen av gm8217s fwd-ting er mer effektiv i it8217s design. Den caddy dts bør være mindre på utsiden, spesielt flyplassens størrelse hette, og større innenfor andre konkurrenter. Forhåpentligvis kan dette daterte designet oppgraderes. Det store spørsmålet er dette: Vil Caddy REALLY ønsker å posisjonere seg som budsjettalternativet til 8220real8221 luksusbiler, trodde jeg Buick allerede hatt den arenaen dekket. Noen ekstra detaljer (esp 5 eller 6-speed girkasse) og jack prisen opp med 8k eller så og høste tilleggsmarginen. Jeg får bare følelsen av at dette er et tilfelle der bilen faktisk kan bli diskontert (ingen ordspill ment) av prospekter fordi it8217 er for billig på papir. Jeg liker caddyen og sin tur. Det er ikke en bil for folk som har på seg jeans og støvler. Gå og kjøp en silverado for det, og en caddy er ikke en bil for en familie med barn. Gå med din favoritt minivan for det. Jeg eier en STS og har kjørt ned Mercedes8217s og BMW8217s overvurderte biler. Min bil er godt bygget og kjører bra. Vær oppmerksom på at jeg liker deres8217s og har eid noen, men don8217t tror sprøytenarkomanene disse bilene har trimproblemer også. Min oppgave er at denne Caddy8217s inkrementelle forbedring gjør det bra nok til Guidobling-blingaging golfspillere. Det som ser ut til å være her er kransen og krønet, den massive størrelsen og kromhjulet resten blir fordømt. RF, jeg er også en fan av Northstar, men etter 15 år skal produksjonen øke. Spesielt siden det er mange naturlig aspirerte 3,5 liter liters V-6er som utelater tilsvarende kraft, inkludert GM8217s egen kommende direkte injiserte 3,6 liter V-6. Når det gjelder de fire hastighetsautomatene, må jeg si at jeg nylig har leid ut en ny GMC Acadia med GM8217s nye seks hastighetsautomat, og at tranny er ikke klar for prime time. Den fire hastighetsautomat fungerer faktisk bedre. Så gitt hva de måtte jobbe med, tror jeg at fire hastigheter er veien å gå, i hvert fall for nå. GM har en helt anstendig interiør-lys fade i Saab 9-58230 Warren Buffett driver en DTS. Faktisk likte han det så mye han kalte Wagoner for å fortelle ham at han kjøpte en (dette var i Forbes eller noe i forrige uke i 8220what billionaires drive8221 artikkel). For 11 år siden kjøpte min eldre nabo en Sevilla STS. I fjor kjøpte han en ny STS med det formål å handle den gamle Sevilla-versjonen. Jeg la merke til at den gamle STS fortsatt var i oppkjørselen etter at den nye bilen kom, så jeg spurte om hvorfor han ikke hadde handlet den 8212 bilen hadde en utrolig 57K mil på klokken. Det viser seg at forhandleren tilbød ham 1500 på handelen. Min nabo var så sint, bestemte han seg for å selge bilen ved å plassere en annonse i det lokale papiret. Før han kunne legge tillegget, tilbød jeg ham 1700 dollar og avtalen ble gjort. Bilen var skitten, innvendig og utvendig, det var ingen kropps - eller innvendig skade, men bilen hadde et halvt dusin mechanicalelectronic problemer som ble adressert. Etter at alt ble reparert, ble jeg sjokkert over hvor billig og halvkalt denne bilen er. Bilen akselererer og håndterer ganske bra, men det er åpenbart at det var svært lite oppmerksomhet på detaljer. Min nabo brukte 41K på denne bilen for 11 år siden 8212 sikkert ikke en billig tur. Etter å ha lest denne anmeldelsen av DTS, ser det ut til at ikke mye har forandret seg ved Cadillac. Caddy vil fortsette å gjøre det bra i noen flere år til det nåværende kundedemografiske ender opp i sykehjemmet eller i fengsel for sprekkhandel. Jeg kan ikke forestille meg at Cadillac kunne konvertere noen Lexus-, Mercedes - og BMW-kunder. Min Cadillac Review sammendrag: Hyggelig tur for 1700, men bare en idiot ville betale 40.000 for en bil som dette. Min mekaniker sier Northstar-motoren er upålitelig og svært kostbar å reparere, noe som krever en ekstra-utvidet garanti. Han anbefaler unngåelse. Hvor vanskelig eller kostbar kan det være for GM å forbedre switchgear kvalitet og taktilitet Det virker som et klart tilfelle av penny-wise og pund-dumt. GM har hatt over fem tiår å designe etterfølgeren til den fire-trinns hydramatiske overføringen, men kom akkurat til det i fjor, og it8217 er langt fra perfekt. Det gjør en lurer på hva GM8217s multi-million dollar ledere gjør hele dagen. Jeg antar at GM8217s Aisin-hentet 5-trinns can8217t håndterer den slags kraft. Kanskje de trodde at deres kjøper demografiske wouldn8217t notice8230and they8217re sannsynligvis riktig. Måten å score et annet poeng på det kortfattede diagrammet. Jeg er på ingen måte en GM-forsvarer, men jeg tror mange kritikker pleier å unngå å ta opp årsaken til at denne bilen eksisterer, det vil si at det er et bestemt marked. La oss anta at gjennomsnittlig kjøper er over 60 år gammel, pensjonert eller blir pensjonert, og kommer fra en middelklassen bakgrunn. De don8217t vil bruke 60-70k på en tur som dette, så det slår ut BMW, Audi, Lexus, Mercedes. De vil ha makt, men ikke aggressiv kraft, og ikke nødvendigvis øyeblikkelig. Bare glatt. Påtrengende. De vil ha lave cruising RPM og anstendig gass kjørelengde. De vil ha en rolig tur og myk. Seter som er enkle å komme inn på, og lett å komme seg ut av, og kan komfortabelt holde deg i timevis. Kroppen skal være minimert, fordi setene don8217t gir nøyaktig sidestøtte. Og så har vi (korrigere meg hvis I8217m er galt) Delphi kjøpt magnetisk kjøring kontroll. Brukes i en ferrari, corvette og Caddy. Et fint stykke teknologisk innovasjon, og tilgjengelig i denne beskjedne pris i full størrelse. Redusert mager og en behagelig tur, ganske bra for dette prispunktet. Som for knappene. RF, la meg spørre noe: Er de store knapper med hevede gnurls på dem. Ønsker du en 70-75 år gammel eldre å trykke på en knapp som ikke gir støy og er så dempet, kan de selv fortelle om de slår det. Husk, I8217m forsvarer ikke produktet. I8217m prøver å gjøre et poeng: Noen ganger er ting utformet annerledes av en grunn. Ikke fordi de er billige, men fordi de som kjøper produktet vil ha det på den måten. Anyway8230.while jeg tror STS er nåværende topp av Caddy design, og jeg har vært i en DTS, jeg tror denne anmeldelsen kan ha vært utenfor markeringen. Hvis en bil som koster hvor som helst 25-40 mindre enn it8217s 8220competition8221, blir nagged av ting som ikke-fading lys (kanskje dette gjør demografiske følelsen som de er fading fra denne world8230) 8230. Vel, det høres ut som de slår marken for prissegmentet. Jeg leste denne anmeldelsen og trodde at det hørtes anstendig. Jeg ville ha solgt min sjel for en svart på svart Sevilla i 798230 vinyl topp slett 8211 med fabrikk Cadillac trådhjul Nå i 2007. kjører min far-i-laws tre år gamle Deville er en av de mest dystre erfaringene man kunne ha bak ratt av noe. GM burde ha holdt det store rwd-chassiset, også som Fleetwood, i stedet for å lage sin store bil basert på forhjulsdrevet design. Det faktum at Esaladen er basert på en lastebilplattform, er en av deres bestselgende modeller som burde ha kuttet dem til det faktum at kjøpere av Cadillac liker å kjøre et stort kjøretøy. La MB, BMW og Lexus bygge de små bilene, folk med penger vil leve store og mest suksess Cadillac var basert på store biler. Sevilla av 708217 var en aberrasjon på grunn av drivstoffkrisen, deVille var alltid deres bestselgende kjøretøy. Cadillacs og Lincolns gjør gode leiebiler for de som enten pleide å kjøre en luksusbil eller for de som ønsker å gi et godt inntrykk. De er rimelige og relativt pålitelige, akkurat hva et utleiefirma og deres kunder krever. Kan du forestille deg Hertz eller Avis med en flåte med MB eller BMW eller Lexus biler. Deres leiepriser ville være svært høye på grunn av de høye vedlikeholdskostnadene, isurancekostnadene og uten tvil hyppige reparasjonsregninger for elektronikk som aldri synes å vare så lenge som nødvendig. Og hvem bryr seg om overføringen har 4, 5 eller 6 gir. Som jeg husker har du hovedsakelig behov for lukkemekanisme for motorer som produserer dreiemomentet i et noe smalt band, som 4 og 6 sylindermotorer med høyt omdreiningstrykk. Ikke akkurat typen motor som brukes til å drive en luksusbil. Du kan bare være for sportsbil tenkende når det gjelder å evaluere en sedan designet for å tilby komfort og relativt enkelt i kjøring. At8217 er min .02. durailer Hvis Caddy skal overleve, må itrsquos gi en standard av luksus som appellerer til flere generasjoner. Caddyrsquos nåværende videresalgsavstøtelse og usikker kjørekvalitet har avstøtet yngre kjøpere, og jeg tror ikke at theyrsquoll skal gå tilbake når de blir seksti. 821282128212821282128212821282128212821282128212821282128212- 60 er trolig ung for nye Cadillac-kjøpere, min nabo er 79. Du er også riktig at disse bilene ikke har videresalgsverdi. Som jeg sa i mitt forrige innlegg, kjøpte jeg en 11 år gammel bil med 57K mil for 1700. Jeg ser klappet ut Honda Civics selger for 3K. Det er sant at sammenlignbare euro eller japanske biler selger for 10k-15k mer, men du kan få forskjellen tilbake på videresalgstid, en 10 år gammel Caddy er nær verdiløs 8212, selv om den er i god stand. 82208230 og de flate, puffete seter sørger for at raske venstrehjørner forlater kinnmerke mot laminerte glass.8221 Ring meg ung, men I8217m sniker fortsatt. Poenget med denne bilen er hva igjen Fordi ingen i min generasjon (senboomer) kjøper dem, med mindre som en bil (med hjemlig restraint8230.). RF, mener at du er for snill mot generalen. Jeg leide en av disse og hatet hvert øyeblikk av det. Hvert aspekt av ridehandling ble frakoblet. Jeg ville tidligere kjøre en Lexus og du vet hvordan jeg føler om dem. Jeg kunne ikke bli komfortabel i de luktfrie setene. Sjefen min har en STSV, som er mye bedre og seks-trinns tranny er i stykker i butikken uten erstatningsdeler i horisonten. gtgtWarren Buffett driver en DTS. Faktisk likte han det så mye han kalte Wagoner for å fortelle ham at han kjøpte en (dette var i Forbes eller noe i forrige uke i det som gjør milliardærer kjører artikkelen). Kanskje han kan kausjonere GM out gtgtLets antar at gjennomsnittlig kjøper er over 60 år, pensjonert eller om å bli pensjonert, og kommer fra en middelklassen bakgrunn. De ønsker ikke å bruke 60-70k på en tur som dette, så det slår ut BMW, Audi, Lexus, Mercedes. Min girlfriend8217s 75 år gamle ganske velstående stevfar er veldig fornøyd med sin nye Acura TL. Min 84 år gamle onkel, også ikke vondt, er veldig fornøyd med hans par år gamle Camry. Begge hadde det samme merket tidligere. Texaguido stil Elsker det. Du får et sett med Boss Hogg bullhorns for det. Denne bilen klipper ikke den som en FWD euro-wannabe. Enda verre, lojalister må rally rundt DTS siden de slutte å lage Brougham for over 10 år siden. Hvis du husker hvor mye bedre de var, selvfølgelig. Ta med brohammen, eller støtte din lokale bybil. Jeg har en 2000 DeVille å sitte på parkeringsplassen, akkurat nå som jeg skulle ønske at en Metoer ville falle på jorden, bare ville svelge den. Å si at jeg hater bilen er veldig snill. Og det faktum at de har tatt fast eller forandret noe unntatt kroppspanelene i 7 år snakker underverk om GM8217s fokus på å lage bedre produkter, vil ikke skje i mitt liv (I8217m bare 32). Bilen har ikke nok 100 km på den, og nesten alt har sviktet på det så langt, noen ting mer enn en gang. At Northstar-motoren er fullstendig søppel, reparert et halvt dusin ganger, og det går fremdeles som skit. Idles dårlig, slår av ved lys eller når det er jævla, selv på motorveien. Den eneste gangen jeg liker det er når du kan her, men det er bare nær redline. Det føles ikke som 300 hk når du setter det i 4000 pund og med den verdiløse overføringen, og jeg er i gjennomsnitt 13 mpg, hyggelig. Ikke bare er det bare en 4-hastighet, men det savner skift, rømmer strøm og noen ganger vil ikke gå i utstyr par for en GM tranny). 3 av de 4 strømvinduene slutter å jobbe nesten alle med en gang i løpet av de siste 2 ukene. Klimakontrollen er glitchy å slå o og av og gjøre ting når det er ønskelig, dash-displayet er omtrent det samme. AC-kompressoren slutter omtrent samme gang Windows ALL brøt, så jeg kommer til å dø av varmeslag i Georgia-varmen. Jeg har selv fått til de tingene som bare er anooying om bilen, bare de tingene som ikke fungerer. Håndteringen er en vits gjett jeg burde ha ventet på den fancy suspensjonen. Håndteringen er et sted mellom en gul schol buss og en massiv cruise liner. Subaru jeg kjøpte for min kone å erstatte Caddy har en 10x mer behagelig tur, ikke hopper i en time etter potten hullet. Skor er rett og slett en idiot ville klappere 41.000 for dette søppelet, antar I8217m halv og idiot siden jeg kjøpte den brukt tilbake i 2003 for 13 den prisen. De depreciate så fort at det ville få hodet til å snurre. Vil ikke finne meg å kjøpe en annen GM, noensinne antar jeg at alle 8220crash up derby82218221banger races8221 vil bli kjørt bare i bakgear i fremtiden. Kanskje Warren Buffet skulle plukke opp en forbrukerrapporter og se på de sorte sirkler som DTS etterlater i kølvandet. Jeg tror det har tjent en stjerne 12 svart sirkel for pålitelighet. Noen lurer på hvorfor disse tingene er verdt mindre enn en Accord 3 år i eierskap Hvis du ser et stort innlegg i tankene under den siste dødsredaksjonen, nevnte jeg hvordan jeg tror GM trenger å krympe merkevarer. Når det er sagt, tilbyr Buick lignende egenskaper til Cadillac på et enda lavere prispunkt. Kanskje eksisterer det som Honda eksisterer for Acura eller Toyota til Lexus I8217m ikke sikker. Jeg liker Buick de lager en solid bil til et bestemt marked til en fornuftig pris. Men I8217m er ikke sikker på om de er nyttige eller skadelige. Når det gjelder byggekvalitet: Jeg kan snakke med Mercs og Lexi8230, men den nåværende BMW 5-serien er bombardert av billige interiørmaterialer, ujevn krom dørkledning og it8217s og ergonomi mareritt (3-serien ern8217t mye bedre). Gå inn på et BMW forum og sjekk ut den nåværende byggekvaliteten til 5-serien hvis du vil gjøre en sammenligning. Videre kjørte jeg nylig (6 måneder siden) en 2004 Lexus LS4304608230.a venn8217s psykiater far8217s tur. Denne turen var så fjernet fra virkeligheten at det var farlig. Ingen støy, ingen vibrasjoner. Jeg er sikker på at jeg gjorde 0-60 i 6,5 sekunder, men jeg kunne ikke fortelle, fordi selv akselerasjonen følte følelsesløs. Jeg gikk inn i en 4-hjulsdrift som gikk inn i en beskjeden høyresving på 20 MPH fordi jeg ikke kunne merke brytpunktet til dekkene. Sikker, den indre ergonomien og komforten var feilfri. Men for alle som kjører i aggresjon en gang i en stund, var den bilen ren fare. Gardiner Westbound: Det virker som et klart tilfelle av penny-wise og pound-dumt. Sooo RedBarchetta, annet enn det, hvordan liker du DeVille I samme ånd som Sooo Mrs. Lincoln, annet enn det, hvordan var showet. Ser ut som at GM vil gå til en RWD-plattform med den nye DTS8230Kanskje med sin nye Ultra V8 som er under utvikling. GM har betalt lip service til sine Cadillac lojalister ved slowgraduallyminimally oppdatering av G-plattform siden introduksjonen over 20 år siden. It8217s billig og sannsynligvis lønnsom. I mellomtiden har resten av Cadillac8217s produktlinje zagged mens DTS har zigged, for å bruke en gammel analogi. Men DTS er fortsatt den beste selgeren, mye til Lutz8217s chagrin som det er nå ute. Hvordan røser du med suksess når SRX og STS er salgsdører, og 8216Slade ser stadig sårbare overfor oljeforsyningens woes noen av oss har snakket opp i Deathwatch-tråden I8217m, det er sikkert at det er en nøyaktig veitest. Men dette DTS høres ut som Cadillacs har alltid vært (i hvert fall siden andre verdenskrig). en stor, komfortabel, 8220prestige8221 bil til en fornuftig pris. Det har alltid vært en stor del av den amerikanske kjørende offentligheten som kunne bry seg mindre om kjøredynamikk eller passform. De innser at en bil er et apparat, en avtagende, avskrivende eiendel. DTS (eller Towncar) er billigere å kjøpe, vedlikeholde og forsikre enn en full størrelse Lexus, BMW eller Mercedes. Eierne føler seg hjemme som hjemme i en på en førsteklasses restaurant eller golfklubb. Hvis det er en bedriftsbil for en mellomstore til et høyt nivå, vil det vente å gi aksjonærene pause. I mange år var det nok for flere hundre tusen mennesker i året. Noen av dette markedet har vendt seg til luksus innenlands SUVer samt importen av high end. Den virkelige skam er at ingen som er ansvarlig for GM, innser at det er mulig å engineerproduceoutsource verdensklasse deler for svært lite mer enn det som tilbys av den laveste budgiveren. Og jeg synes det var sannsynligvis alltid den måten. Jeg leide en for en uke med sightseeing i Santa Fe. Når jeg ble vant til det, var det en flott bil. Ved 80 mph hadde de fire av oss en vanlig stemme samtale med cd-spilleren piano8230 dette er hva denne bilen er for, fritid. Som sådan var det en wonderfull følgesvenn for en kort ferie. Hjemme bomber jeg rundt i en liten VW, skremmer alle ponnybilene, men jeg ble betatt av dette milde monsteret. Det gir ny mening til smooooooth og stille. I dag måtte jeg gå omtrent en time hver vei på I95 i Philadelphia. Jeg skulle ønske jeg hadde en av disse til å gjøre det i. Også i Sants Fe klarte jeg 23 mpg. fantastisk Bravo Cadillac. Og jeg kan ikke tro at jeg skrev at Sist jeg husker, trodde jeg Cadillac hadde store planer for DTSpremium-bilen i slutten av tiåret. Uansett, de trenger det. Hvorvidt de skjønner det på GM, det skjer en stor generasjonsovergang. Baby boomers beveger seg nærmere og nærmere den pensjonsalderen, og denne typen skit vil ikke kutte den. Ikke når du har Audi, Lexus, Infiniti og Acura for å nevne noen få ut de bilene de har. Enda verre, hva med Gen X Gen Y GM må hele tiden utvikle seg hvis de vil være i nå, så å si. De burde ha bygget seksten. amp Likevel lucerne og DTS selger 160K per år. Ingen forretningsmessig sak kunne bli gjort på anyones8217 planet for å dumpe dem, ennå. Bare oppdatere dem på zeta med samme formel, i det minste ville en v-8 være fornuftig. De skal bygge 16 og selge den til 50-60k med zeta-plattformen. Min sytti noe far og jeg trodde det ville vært morsomt å bytte biler i helgen noen måneder tilbake. Han skulle til en golf turnering, og jeg hadde en begivenhet i Napa. Så han tok 2006 GS300, og jeg kjørte 2006 DTS. Bunnlinjen: folkemengden min og jeg likte bilen mye mer enn sin mengde, og han likte meg. Og mens I8217m ikke er klar til å gjøre en varig handel, er det også slik at han liker bilen sin, mer enn jeg liker. Vi trodde alle at Caddy var snill og kult og likte den retro brede følelsen. De trodde at Lexus var komfortabel nok, enten for å komme inn og ut, eller å sette seg inn i (de sportslige setene, bilrevennene er så glad i aren8217t nødvendigvis appellerende til det geriatriske settet). Det høres ut som Cadillac har til hensikt å slippe DTS etter denne iterasjonen, men jeg tror ikke det er bra å slå den på grunn av manglende oppfyllelse av boomer og yngre kriterier. DTS-publikum mangler i dag8217s fetishistisk fokus på passform og finish, og couldn8217t bryr seg mindre om følelsen av innvendige knapper eller tepper i kofferten. Hvis den neste CTS er en guide, vil DTS8217s etterfølger løse disse problemene, og pensjonister fra 2010 vil bli fornøyd. Men de pensjonister fra 2006 elsker deres DTS, og jeg tror Cadillac fortjener kreditt for å gi sine kunder nøyaktig det de vil, og til en pris de er komfortabel med. Se, jeg forstår: Jeg er ikke den ultimate arbiteren av hvilke bestanddeler som er en quirky karakott for en gitt person. Tro det eller ikke, I039m glad for folk som er fornøyd med deres DTS. Og jeg vet at det er mange av dem. (Som jeg sa i today039s GM DW redaksjonell, regner modellen for over 25 av Caddy039s biz.) Gud velsigne dem. Jeg deler Caddy039s håp om at de alle lever til 100. Du er velkommen til å utfordre mine meninger og deres relevans. Men sannheten er at jeg kjenner en god bil når jeg kjører en. Og dette ain039t det. Gjennomsnittlig amerikansk forventet levetid, 2006 77,9 år. For ikke å nevne at det er et godt antall folk over den alderen som ikke kjører. Bygget world8217s beste luksusbil That8217s en høy rekkefølge selv for de etablerte high-end-marqueene, brydde seg ikke om intensiverne. Fil den ene under notgonnahappen. Ubalansert: Vi trodde alle at Caddy var snill og kult og likte den retro brede følelsen. De trodde at Lexus ikke var komfortabel nok, enten for å komme inn og ut, eller å bosette seg i (de sportslige setene, bilrevennene er så glad i arent nødvendigvis tiltalende for det geriatriske settet). En Subaru Forrester vil gi deg den enkle inngangs amputgangen til en mye lavere pris enn Caddy. Selvfølgelig vil ingen som identifiserer med Cadillac-merket, bli sett i bilkvivalenten til en flettet skjort, uansett hvor funksjonell det er. Min 25000 CDN-bil kommer med regnavnemmende wipers8230Jeg anser ikke den luksusen mer som jeg liker gangsta-blikket fra den forrige gen Deville (svart med dype fargete vinduer og senket). Det er noe bemerkelsesverdig (og forteller) om den tidligere plakat039s historie om den gamle fyren, med en gammel STS som er svært opphisset hos forhandleren, som bare tilbyr ham 1500 i handel for sin elleve år gamle tur som koster 41k når det er nytt, og det er han fortsatt kjøpt en ny for en annen 41k. Tror den gamle fyren virkelig at han kommer til å bli mer enn 1500 for sin siste 41k STS elleve år fra nå. Den merkelige tingen er, din anmeldelse og stjerner slags sagt ellers. Det er nesten som om du tar filosofien bak car8217s eksistens, i stedet for selve bilen. Du ga det en 3 og to 48217s, og på en eller annen måte kom du ut og sa at det var en 2. Very Clarkson-esque. 8220Det går bra. Det rir godt. Det håndterer godt. Men ikke noe av dette matters82308221 Theres noe bemerkelsesverdig (og forteller) om den tidligere plakathistorien om den gamle fyren med en gammel STS som er svært opphisset hos forhandleren som bare tilbyr ham 1500 i handel for sin elleve år gamle tur som koster 41k når det er nytt, og det er han fortsatt kjøpt en ny for en annen 41k. Betyr den gamle fyren virkelig at han skal få mer enn 1500 for sin siste 41k STS elleve år fra nå 821282128212821282128212821282128212821282128212- Han betalte over 50k for den nye STS. Denne mannen er 79, og jeg antar at hans neste tur blir en lyssetting. Jeg er enig med følelsen om at dette er en perfekt egnet bil for den demografiske som den er ment for. Dessverre blir de færre i antall evert år. De dør enten av gammel alder, eller blir lokket unna av konkurrenter som enten er noe billigere eller noe dyrere. Hvis Cadillac var avhengig av dette segmentet for vekst, så var de feil. Imidlertid tror jeg at veksten vil bli drevet av CTS, slik at forfølgelsen av en skimmingstrategi i dette segmentet er trolig egnet for dette segmentet. Med den forestående nedgangen i den underordne Town Car ser DTS8217-prospektene seg ganske bra ut. Bilen kan nok bruke noen forbedringer, spesielt med hensyn til pålitelighet, men jeg kan se hvordan å investere en haug av penger inn i dette ville betale for GM. I Kina selger Caddy en STS med forbedret interiør og en 5-tommers tillegg til akselbasen, og forbedrer baksetet. Jeg må tro at de kunne tilby det her for DTS-penger og ha en virkelig konkurransedyktig bil. Jeg vet at Imperial konceptbil Chrysler viste at Gud var forferdelig, men stygg, men hvis dette er konkurransen, er de dumme å ikke bygge en eksklusiv 300 av noe slag. Jeg lurte alltid på hvorfor Toyota fortsatte å holde Avalon på en strukket Camry-plattform. I8217d elsker å se dem dekontent LS460 ned til 35K nivå og selge det som Avalon. Det ville være dødsklokken av Lucerne, Town Car og DTS. Uansett, fin anmeldelse IKKE banke Town Car. Jeg har en bybil i 2003 og en Cadillac Deville i 2003. Bybilen er det overlegne kjøretøyet til Cadillac i nesten alle henseender (når det gjelder tur, komfort, pålitelighet, sikkerhet og rom). Jeg har eid Lexuses, Mercedes, Toyotas og Hondas, men de sammenligner ikke med min Town Car. Beklager. Det er den eneste bilen bygget i moderne tider som jeg ville vurdere å kjøpe igjen. Cadillac hadde muligheten til å remake Deville inn i Fleetwood (min favoritt bil), men de mislyktes. Jeg finner DTS, spesielt i 8220Performance Package8221 skjul, en dypt frustrerende bil. Som RF, gravd jeg Northstar8217s dreiemoment og eksosnote, og kom til og med på den myke og sikker foten og rytmen. Hurtling rundt hjørner med store, feiende bevegelser på friksjonsløs roret var nesten8230 da jeg sa it8230 morsomt. Så hvorfor vil Cadillac gi disse åpenbart talentfulle ingeniører noe annet enn den fete, daterte G-kroppsplattformen for å bygge et flaggskip på hvorfor de strekker budsjettet nok til en (anstendig) seks-trinns auto, soft touch IP-plast og koblingsutstyr Ikke delt med en 25K Buick LaCrosse It8217s som å aktivere Navy SEALS med slingshots. Hvor mye er en Infinit M35X jeg vil ta det over DTS. DTS er alle amerikaner i designspråket, og det appellerer til noen. Ikke meg selv. Jeg kan ikke komme forbi de lange fram - og bakoverhengene. Fjernstart er isn8217t akkurat en fettrik fyr leke heller, GM har det spredt ganske demokratisk rundt deres utvalg (helvete, Malibu var den første bilen GM tilbød det med). Og I8217m er sikker på at midten av det rattet også er GM-delboks (det ser ut som det samme stykket fra en Impala). P. J. that8217s en grunn til at mange graduate mekaniske ingeniører unngår sysselsetting hos amerikanske auto-selskaper som pesten. I can understand how Cadillacs appeal to today8217s older generation. But how much longer will this be the case I8217m not sure people in their 508217s and 608217s harbor the same warm feelings for GM that people in their 708217s and 808217s currently do. Its true though that the resale argument might not really apply. If I were 80, I wouldnt be too concerned with the resale value anyway. 8220With only a four-speed Hydramatic gearbox swapping cogs, highway overtaking means lots of noise and little alacrity.8221 And there you have it folks. My 03 Accord which cost half as much as the Caddy has a 5 speed. When Cadillac was the standard of the world, they actually featured engineering innovations. Now they are dragging the anchor. I think the problems evident with the DTS are symptomatic of almost every car across the board nowadays (with a few exceptions). Pistonheads are going to have to come to terms with the fact that new cars, well, suck. From the Camry and the Accord right on up to the Cadillac Escalade and Lexus LX SUVs. Everything is plastic and flimsy. The question is, how do we get the automakers to change I think a lot of folks here are missing the proverbial 8216boat8217 on this one. 1) Cadillacs have always been among the top picks for long distance travelers (salesmen, regional managers, etc.). As a highway rider they offer an extremely smooth highway ride with fuel economy that has almost always been the best in class over the last ten years. This is one of the many reasons why they are purchased for fleets and are far better in that regard than Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes. 2) The Cadillac brand has always ranked at or near the top in durability studies. The quality of the powertrain and the demographics that are attracted to the DTS (corporate fleets and older folks) is a big reason why. 3) A lot of the competition in this segment have FAR worse quality and cost issues. Mercedes has been the lemon law king for the entire decade and will likely remain in that perch. BMW8217s maintenance issues over the last several years have come from the 7th circle of hell. A Cadillac may spend a day or two in the shop before it is given a 8216green light8217 at the auction. BMW8217s often spend weeks at a time. Infiniti cost cut their way into the segment and paid the price with their owner retention rate (look at the J. D. Power surveys that were highlighted a few weeks back.) To their credit, they are getting better8230 but right now the king of the road is8230 Lexus. However, the LS430 retails for about 15k to 20k more than the DTS and is in an entirely different market for the most part. In fact, the only real competition to the DTS is the Lincoln Town Car, the Chrysler 300C, and the Toyota Avalon. The Town Car is an excellent vehicle for the livery trade and is a better deal for those who REALLY want the old fashioned American luxury car. The Avalon will appeal to the younger generation (408217s and 508217s) and for those who simply don8217t want an American alternative. Ironically enough, the quality of the current generation Avalon has been absolutely terrible and the exterior styling is not akin towards traditonal American luxury. But I do give Toyota kudos for a great interior. The Cadillac appeals to those that I8217ve already mentioned. The older crowd (608217s to 808217s), the corporate fleets, and the long distance traveler. In my work, folks tend to drive Cadillacs, Police Interceptors, full-sized American sedans, and full sized pickups. You can bark all you want about the little issues. But a smooth ride at 85 mph, plenty of power, good fuel economy, an excellent sound system, sold handling, and a well thoguht out trip computer are the most important issues for a lot of road warriors out there. The Cadillac is seen as the leader in many of these respects. However, I think a loaded 300C may be the best buy here. It rides just as smooth as the Cadillac with better styling and lower long-term ownership costs. A 300C has a world class powertrain, a very comfortable interior environment (when loaded), and can be optioned out to the point where you can get virtually everything you would want in a luxury car8230 and then some. One other vehicle that would be a worthy mention if it had an 8216L8217 version would be the ES330. There could be a pretty sound arguement made that the ES generations tend to be better sculpted than the Avalons. Then again, I8217ve always been a big fan of long, narrow cars (the late 908217s Jaguar XJ8L and Audi A8L) so perhaps it8217s all just a matter of taste. Speaking of which8230I think both of those cars from that era offered far better styling than anything made today with powertrains that are still competitive with the current marketplace offerings. That8217s just my own opinion on it. But then again, I look at enough examples to know what will stand the test of time. The only one I8217ve mentioned which will still be considered a distinctive and handsome design ten years hence will be the 300C. CarShark: 8220The strange thing is, your review and stars kind of said otherwise. Its almost like youre taking on the philosophy behind the cars existence, rather than the car itself. You gave it a 3 and two 4s, and somehow you came out saying it was a 2. 8221 Mr. Farago8217s assessment is both poignant and appropriate. Like a fine work of art, a successful luxury or sports car is not just an assemblage of parts. A winning entrant must also possess that certain intangible quality, understood by buyers of the breed, which is the result of how well the pieces fit together. The final tally is not just a arithmetic function of design, performance, ride, handling, etc. but how well these things and other aspects of the vehicle work in tandem with one another and are combined into an overall package. Designs that fail, such as this one, ultimately yield something less than the sum of their individual parts. GM cars have generally succeeded in providing decent straight-line performance (albeit in a fashion that is all too often crude and inefficient), but the flaws frequently overwhelm the benefits, with the positive qualities not strong enough to justify a purchase. For the domestic automakers to succeed, they need to get every aspect (or at least almost every aspect) of the package right, and then make those bits fit together in such a way so that 22 can equal 5. These days in Detroit, 22 all too often adds up to 3 or less, they seem to have forgotten the passion and romance that could ignite in the car buyers of yesteryear. Caught in the wave of that collective wave of amnesia, it should be no surprise that their market share is falling, while their rebates are not. I8217ll be 60 next year. With the exception of an 821789 Taurus SHO (hey, I8217m a car guy), every new car I8217ve purchased since the mid-70s has been Asian-sourced. Caddy has flat lost the first boomer group now arriving in its key demo. And when the bloom fades on the Luxo-Truck niche8230.watch out. Adrian said,8221These days in Detroit, 22 all too often adds up to 3 or less, they seem to have forgotten the passion and romance that could ignite in the car buyers of yesteryear.8221 That really is the whole point I believe. We yearn for that excitement and passion that was built into the cars of yesteryear. The Jaguar with its beautiful exhaust tone and exciting and sleek design, the Mercedes with its alloy and technically crafted engine that will run steady at speed with a simple elegant interior that is totally functional and the Cadillac that had the chrome bumpers, sweeping long lines, distinctive taillights, with a presence that announced to all around that this was the ultimate success. Yes what we really want is the magic that was in the good old days when cars were mechanical and sculptural pieces of automotive art. Today sadly they are capable, electronic and somewhat boring and we look very hard to find something that can ignite our passion we once knew. This is why the next generation doesn8217t get that excited about cars. As my children commented, Dad does it have a cd player Can I plug in my i-pod If those items are available, then who needs it. Gottleib: The 8220passion8221 in all new cars has been subverted by crumple zones, ABS, ESC, SRS (airbags), etc. All of these acronyms add weight, cost and complexity, and necessitate 8220robbing from Peter82308221 Thus, the soulless powertrains, plasticky interiors, 80th percentile ergonomics, and glitzy nav systems and stereos to 8220distract8221 the driver from the appliance that heshe is driving. Every time there is a potential 8220bright spot8221 in the car realm (foriegn or domestic), once it8217s 8220Americanized8221, the soul dissipates like so much smoke. Every time I look at the tremendous variety of vehicles that are offered in the European markets, it makes me sad. I think that the Satrun (Opel) Astra will prove the prove the point 8212 the American version will be a mid-level Euro offering 8212 denuded of soul. The newest GM car I own is a 1967 Pontiac LeMans. There is a reason for that. God knows, I8217ve tried to be a patriot. But Cadillac shows, in a microcosm, how nearly every time the General has a good idea, it8217s subverted and cheapened by 3 half-assed ideas. This has been occurring ever since the Allante, which mated a beautiful, Italian-sculpted body with a Chevette interior. Cadillac resale values have been earth-bound meteors for at least 3 decades. When the octogenarians who plunk down the reserves from their retirement accounts find themselves taking a dirt nap, the Caddy that cost so much 4 short years back gets wholesaled to the 2nd-tier dealer (or, in the time-honored tradition, given to the 19-year-old grandson as a first car to be beaten and abused because, well, that8217s just what old Caddys are for). In California, the only people you8217ll find driving 821799 DeVilles are college students who pack the nasty velour back seat with a couple of kegs each weekend. Yes, I8217ve tried to be a patriot. Like David Duchovny, I wanted to believe that Detroit could return to its former glory, hoping that any little bit of right-thinking heralded the beginning of a return to former heights. I8217ve been hoping for nearly 20 years now. But when our last Saturn L wagon finally rattled itself to death, I took my wife for rides in GMC Envoys, Ford Freestyles, and Dodge Magnums. What did we buy A Honda Pilot. And I didn8217t even feel any guilt about it. DTS is the only Cadillac I would buy. However, the Town Car is far superior vehicle when it comes to quality and longevity. It may not have as many gee-gaws and gee-wiss features, but it is the car to own if you buy your luxury cars for room and comfort. The depreciate like a stone as well, which is why my next car will be a 1-3 year old Town Car for the family truckster 8211 same or better fuel economy than a loaded minivan. If I can find the Signature L version 8211 an added bonus. Neither a correct use of the word 8220anodyne8221 nor an accurate review of the car. I have a DTS and it is a very fine car and a very good value. Lots of room in back, big trunk, a real highway cruiser, plus it handles very well. I think the styling is both contemporary and elegant, neither of which terms could be applied to a BMW, Mercedes, or Lexus. I also like the front wheel drive, because this car can handle winter without missing a beat. I do think GM is neglecting the basic concept of the deVilleDTS, which is the core of their product8217s line and image. The current car was introduced in 2000 and it is obvious they expect to continue building it for at least the next several years. Of course, it8217s only direct competition is the Lucerne, so perhaps GM thinks they can float for a while longer. I think that8217s a mistake, but it will mean a used DTS will be one of the best values available for several years to come. You can bark all you want about the little issues. But a smooth ride at 85 mph, plenty of power, good fuel economy, an excellent sound system, sold handling, and a well thoguht out trip computer are the most important issues for a lot of road warriors out there. The Cadillac is seen as the leader in many of these respects. This sums up the state of automotive reviews from everywhere. Journalists, from the USA Today to Car and Driver magazine, miss the forest for the trees by panning cars for little insignificant details (like buttons and gauge colors) and ignoring what really counts in a good car 8211 ride, handling relative to the driving it is designed for, space, safety, and comfort. Not everyone wants to tool around in a little Japanese garbagemobile with a console shifter, tight interior dimensions, a lousy ride, and forgettable jellybean shaped styling just because the name brand is in the journalists039 tastes. I look forward to the day when the major publications will come to terms with the fact that a car is not a religious object of folklore hidden behind the guise of a name, but a machine a machine to be tested to general but specific characteristics like ride, safety, handling, and comfort and recommended based on its ability to meet those criteria. These are car reviews, not New York State Appellate decisions, so lets not give it to a good car on one hand, then take it away on the other. ) Hey folks. Go to 8216the Google8217 and check out the DTS-L. Also, rummage through Cadillac8217s website until you stumble on their 8220Professional Cars8221 8211 hearses and limos. Check out the impressive heavy-duty specs: amid the expected cop-car brakes, oil coolers, etc, are EIGHT-lug wheels. I say we need to fit 20-30 DTSs with all this kit and have an IROC-style race series Historically, it has always been about the engines for Cadillac. Back in the 1930s, they were the ones who offered magnificent V8s, V12s and even V16s (that rivaled the then car-maker Marmon). In 1949, they were one of the first to offer an overhead valve V8. The low point for Cadillac was 1982, when someone at The General thought putting the Cadillac wreath on the Chevrolet Cavalier and calling it a 8220Cimarron8221 would somehow rival the 3-series BMW. All it did was cheapen the marque. The way back came into being with the Northstar 8211 which as editor Farago has noted, is still a great engine, 14 years after its introduction (and with continuing improvements). The Cadillac division likely has the talent in its design studios to make a true classic again. While the era of 16 cylinder engines is behind us, maybe the era of great Cadillacs isn8217t. I8217m a little surprised by all the negative comments on Cadillac resale values. While that might be true for the front drivers, I recently sold a very nice 821794 Brougham (rwd) with 90k miles to a neighbor for 7500. Terry Parkhurst: March 13th, 2007 at 2:37 pm Historically, it has always been about the engines for Cadillac. Back in the 1930s, they were the ones who offered magnificent V8s, V12s and even V16s (that rivaled the then car-maker Marmon). In 1949, they were one of the first to offer an overhead valve V8. The low point for Cadillac was 1982, when someone at The General thought putting the Cadillac wreath on the Chevrolet Cavalier and calling it a Cimarron would somehow rival the 3-series BMW. All it did was cheapen the marque. The way back came into being with the Northstar 8211 which as editor Farago has noted, is still a great engine, 14 years after its introduction (and with continuing improvements). The Cadillac division likely has the talent in its design studios to make a true classic again. While the era of 16 cylinder engines is behind us, maybe the era of great Cadillacs isnt. To this I would add that Cadillac can also claim some of their historic relevance by being first to market with new outstanding features. From the self-starter on, historically the Cadillac owner got it first. This still happens today, but only within the GM universe (i. e. the HF 3.6 V6). I think a Toyota Avalon is a nicer car frankly. Just as floaty, big enough, and much better build quality. Plus more luxury even if it lacks the nameplate. When I see someone in a Cadillac, I just think sucker. Cadillac drivers don8217t even bother to look at Toyota drivers, in fact they drive Cadillacs so others will look at them. 8220I think a Toyota Avalon is a nicer car frankly. Just as floaty, big enough, and much better build quality. Plus more luxury even if it lacks the nameplate. Sorry, I don8217t think that the Toyota Avalon is 8220big enough8221. My cars routinely carry six passengers in them, and when they don8217t, I enjoy the openness that a bench seat creates. I liked the old generation Toyota Avalon for it8217s build quality and bench seat option. When I went to buy a car in January, I looked at the present generation Avalon for those two features. It had neither. But it came with a beautifully inflated price tag for being a 8220Toyota8221. When I see someone in a Cadillac, I just think sucker.8221 Oh really. As opposed to the gu pays THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR A CAMRY because, it, hailing from Japan, is clearly superior to American automobiles. Data Who needs researched data Cadillac drivers dont even bother to look at Toyota drivers, in fact they drive Cadillacs so others will look at them. They try to. Toyota drivers are too good to look at anyone else. They don8217t see Caddy drivers looking. (I am not totally biased. I happen to think the Escalade sucks.) To all those who talk about the 8220soul8221 or 8220passion8221 of some cars or somesuch crap: How much of that 8220indefinable-ness8221 is just your own personal bias Seriously. The fact that car reviewers and fanboys can attach so many floral adjectives and characteristics of people to what is essentially a heaping mass of metal, plastic, rubber, wood, a bit of carpet and various toxic fluids with a straight face never ceases to amaze me. Cadillac8217s problem is not a lack of soul. Also, I realize that many of you are 8220enthusiasts8221. but some of you seem to forget that you are in the minority. Begrudging the loss of manual transmissions, ABS-less brakes and the like in favor of 8220soul-less8221 modern technology when most buyers seem to be going in the other direction strikes me almost as masochism. 8220Not everyone wants to tool around in a little Japanese garbagemobile with a console shifter, tight interior dimensions, a lousy ride, and forgettable jellybean shaped styling just because the name brand is in the journalists8217 tastes.8221 Thats exactly the kind of ridiculous generalization that screwed GM in the first place. I looked at an Avalon tonight at the auto show 8211 it was over 37,000. They had a DTS for 44,000 at the show as well. Both were nice cars, but let8217s face it, the Avalon is very unattractive. If it is unattractice enough to spend another 7,000 is up to you. Thats exactly the kind of ridiculous generalization that screwed GM in the first place. Wrong. Japanese cars have fallen far from the reliable, value priced machines they were ten years ago. Somewhere along the line they lost both value and reliability. GM alongside the other automakers was screwed because of a failing American economy after the 2001 recession whereby potential buyers were priced out of the market. With the Asian economy on the downswing, you will see the American car makers take center stage once again. Japanese cars have not lost their value or reliability. GM8217s cars have increased theirs. But not by enough. Did you read the comments about Caddy8217s resale value YIKES But don8217t take my word for it. Check out any data dump you like, from Consumer Reports to JD Power to TrueDelta to kbb. You will find that the facts simply do not support your central contentions. I8217m intrigued by all the 8220road warrior8221 comments and how they prefer the DTS ridehandling combination. I8217ve driven many Cadillacs and the ONLY Cadillac that even has a ridehandling combination worth a damn is the CTS. When driving long distances at 80, 85MPH, you want a car that tracks and goes around turns with very little effort and without the need to throw out the anchor. You also want a car that keeps you in your seat as it easily changes direction. No other Cadillac meets those criteria. At present, there is a 2007 Cadillac STS with the 3.6 V6 and 4 wheel drive in the family fleet. This car replaced a 2004 CTS with the same 3.6 and sport package. With the exception of the interior, the STS is no where near the car the CTS was as far as being a road warrior. Did you read the comments about Caddys resale value YIKES As a result of this, any Cadillac that comes in the family is leased through one of our businesses so that we can at least write it off. If only my dad could be convinced to get something else. 8220GM alongside the other automakers was screwed because of a failing American economy after the 2001 recession whereby potential buyers were priced out of the market.8221 If GM was brought down by an 8 month recession in 2001, explain to me how Toyota has thrived in the same environment, on top of a decade long Japanese economic slowdown. GM is struggling simply because they try to dictate, not anticipate, what American consumers want. Maybe their cars appeal to you and that8217s fine, but they obviously don8217t to a growing number of consumers. Blaming the overall economy (which has since recovered), is a thin excuse for arrogance and miscalculation. How does a Japanese car have inferior 8220value8221 compared to an American counterpart in terms of resale Or any other measure you care to use Cadillac Deville (aka DTS) fills a sizable market niche, one with enough sales volume to make it worth GM8217s while building the car. That is the niche for large, American, 6 passenger, big trunk, V8 powered, four door sedan. My 821799 Deville is a good solid example of the type. The 4.6L Northstar will accelerate the car well beyond the speed limit in no time at all. Stamp on it, and color it gone. Highway ride comfort is outstanding. Brakes are strong, the car stays level and doesn8217t whine as you power thru a tight turn. You can charge thru the narrow gap between the semi in the right lane and the Jersey barrier center strip with better road feel than any Town Car I ever drove. Back seat accepts full grown humans. It8217s dependable. Mine is up to 92K miles and nothing has broken. All the tricky gadgets still work. Styling is decent. Gas mileage is better than the 4 banger minivan I traded in. It8217s a good car, for what it is. It isn8217t an SUV, it isn8217t a Euro styled sport sedan, it isn8217t a pony car, it isn8217t a get-to-work econobox. As a product, it8217s biggest drawback is poor resale value. I8217m driving mine 8217cause it was a real low mileage creampuff at a very good price, used. Whereas a new Caddy buyer takes more depreciation than a new Mercedes or Toyota buyer. I8217m not sure just what the General can do to improve Caddy resale value. As the car comes from the factory it8217s pretty good. The Northstar engine produces barrels of torque over a wide range of RPM, so there is no need for a complex 6,7,or 8 speed slushbox. The strong and unbreakable 4 speed Hydramatic is a good match for the engine. Interior trim is durable and refined looking. All my electrical switches still work, and I ain8217t all that fussy about the type of plastic they make 8217em out of. Plastic is plastic. They can upholster the trunk in anything they want, I don8217t really care that much about the decor of the interior of the trunk. I do wish the Deville had stiffer springs. On a secondary road, hitting a pothole or a water bar at speed will bottom out the suspension with an ugly 8220bang8221 that takes a lot of the fun out of the drive. I find myself babying the car on back roads to avoid that teeth jarring noise. Too bade the Caddy engineers can8217t come up with a better trade off between back road handling and smooth interstate riding. The current Caddy marketing sucks. They are hyping the mini caddy CTS stuff, a 4 passenger Euro styled sporty car. For GM8217s sake I hope someone is buying the V6 4 passenger CTS8217s. I never see a Deville ad. They dropped the old widely recognized model names for an obscure jumble of code letters. I like the toyota avalon too, but it does not have the presence or the cache of the caddy among those who would notice such things8230. if i were the sort who valued the opinions of others, id buy the caddy just because it would get more wows8230 If depreciation sucks on a car, buy it used. This would be an excelelnt choice used, because it was probably cared for and not beat up. if i were in the market for such a vehicle, i8217d consider this one, gently used by an octogenerain to go to church on sunday. Low milage, papmpered, perfect. Another car that would interest me is a used Mercedes E300 diesel, but they are more expensive. I just recently found this site and after 30 plus years working for a GM dealer I find the death watch series right on the mark. The major frustation in my life was year after year watching this once great american company slowly dieing the death of a thousand self inflicted cuts. Joe O: I am by no means a GM defender8230 I am not a GM defender either. Lets assume the average buyer is over 60 years of age, retired or about to be retired, and comes from a middle-class background. I believe Oldsmobile followed all of their customers to their graves. If a car costing anywhere from 25-40 less than its competition is nagged by things such as non-fading lights (maybe this makes the demographic feel like they are fading from this world)8230 My 2001 Honda Accord has fading interior lights. And it was priced at about 13 of its 8220NON-COMPETION8221. Max Tresmond: Not everyone wants to tool around in a little Japanese garbagemobile with a console shifter, tight interior dimensions, a lousy ride, and forgettable jellybean shaped styling just because the name brand is in the journalists8217 tastes. I tool around in a Honda because that console shifter is ooooh soooo sweeeet. Once you shift in a Honda, you can never go back to a GM gearlock gearbox. docdoowop: Caddy has flat lost the first boomer group now arriving in its key demo. And when the bloom fades on the Luxo-Truck niche. watch out. Higher gasoline prices is nixing the Luxo-Truck niche. Only sales left are the people who are willing to spend upwards of 40k for a truck that nobody drives but simply parks for 8220show8221, like the guy who owns the local bowling alley. He has his super sized Hummer parked all the time in the fire lane, never really goes anywhere with it. (11 miles a gallon on the HWY must be a bitch.) Terry Parkhurst: Historically, it has always been about the engines for Cadillac. Back in the 1930s, they were the ones who offered magnificent V8s, V12s and even V16s (that rivaled the then car-maker Marmon). In 1949, they were one of the first to offer an overhead valve V8. The low point for Cadillac was 1982, when someone at The General thought putting the Cadillac wreath on the Chevrolet Cavalier and calling it a Cimarron would somehow rival the 3-series BMW. All it did was cheapen the marque. That may very well have been the low point of cadillac. After all, that Chevy Cavalier wasn8217t such a great economy car to begin with. But what is most telling about your post of Cadillac8217s glory days is this: What inovations has Cadillac brought to the marketplace since An electro-mechanical self-closing trunk (Doesn8217t count, that is about as superfluously idiotic as the 20 speeds in the avocado green kitchen blenders of the 8217708217s.) A sad footnote to this story is a further observation of the DTS8217s resale value or lack thereof. I recall how strong the resale value of Cadillacs was. As recently as the late 821760s and early 821770s, my Dad and many of his golf buddies would trade in their Cadillacs every year or so. The trade-in value, in terms of real dollars, was usually well within 1,000 of the original purchase price. So the actual ownership cost 8211 aside from gas and oil changes 8211 was somewhere between 50 and 100 per month. Compared to a Chevy, it was sometimes LESS expensive to drive a Caddy, of you traded your car every year. Oh, how things have changed. Did you know that you can buy a two-year-old DTS 8211 fresh off of corporate lease 8211 for less than 15k, with less than 24k miles AND a completely NEW paint job Seems that GM builds thousands of 8220Mary Kay pink pearl8221 Cadillacs each year for their largest buyer of the DTS. In the terms of the corporate lease agreement, these cars are not allowed to be resold unless they are repainted. So the used market ends up with thousands of low mileage, two-year-old DTSs with as many as FIVE coats of paint: The 8220Mary Kay pink pearl8221 is a special triple-coat pearl, as well as two additional coats, one of a color coat (usually white) and a final clearcoat. Interestingly (and not kindly, on my part) the tan or gray leather seats usually do not have a 8220butt pocket8221 formed in the driver8217s seat, perhaps a testament to special padding on the part of the seat, or perhaps the padding of the driver. Laugh if you must, but I8217m seriously considering the purchase of one of these for my mother for her 75th birthday next year. While not my choice for a 8220gently used8221 automobile, where else can I get a freshly repainted luxury land barge for less than the price of a new base-level Accord The one redeeming factor of Cadillac is that the driver8217s seat will go up high enough and forward enough to accommodate a 4821768243 90 geriatric driver. I drive a 2005 STS, which i think got a rather harsh review here. I wonder what suspension setup the car had, since the review didn8217t mention it. The base setup actually seems much better. Anyhow, I just had one of these DTSs as a loaner car and it is rubbish If anything, it seemed to ride worse than the Deville it replaced, but the worst thing is the interior. Everything about it just feels cheap, and the dash is the same as what you get in a Lucerne and, even more shocking, a CHEVY IMPALA That really pissed me off What the hell is Cadillac thinking If Cadillac cannot come up with a credible rear-drive flagship, I am switching to Mercedes. Everytime I tell someone I drive a Cadillac all they think of are those stupid Devilles. Why would any supposedly luxury car with a V-8 have front-wheel drive. Talk about torque steer I am so glad that Cadillac doesn8217t try to be 8220European8221 with the DTS. In Europe, luxo sedans and even midsize station wagons need to be responsive and fast as super sports cars Well, they don8217t need to8230but it8217s the last selling argument of the German car industry who (incredibly, but true) still succesfully is able to sell their overprized, pseudo-sports-luxo-station cars by hypnotizing customers all around the world through their propaganda. What a joke I therefore enjoy the smooth ride of a Cadillac limousine and don8217t care about whether I can compete with a BMW pseudo sports car or not. After 1000km driving I know 1 thing for sure8230 I8217ll arrive much more relaxed than the poor BMWMercAudi guys. Should I need to pass somebody, my Caddy still delivers enough power at any time (even for 95 of all BMWs). For those who compare with BMWAudi 8211 consider a Corvette (for the real sports feeling instead of overprized pseudo) Oh 8211 and by the way 8211 if you think there8217s really a huge difference in quality between US and Europe, then I recommend you to read some of the European blogs. Or talk to some taxi drivers in Europe about the 2003-2006 Merc E-Class. Oh 8211 ever seen a BMW as a taxi (hm. heck why is that only) What are this funny talks about hardplastic or softplastic 8211 it8217s plastic. That8217s what it is. You don8217t want plastic. Buy Bentley, Aston Martin, Ferrari. If you can8217t afford, stay quiet and thank god you have affordable luxo sedans in the US. What the Caddy costs in US, a well equipped VW Gold has it8217s starting price in Europe. You should be proud of having a strong performing motor industry who provides you so much value at so low prices. I can039t understand how you blast American cars for their supposed lack of handling ability as the main or only criteria for judging a car039s worthiness. Supposedly, Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc, take curves so much faster without leaning, and their interiors are of so much finer materials and the alignment of seams are so much more exact, that no American (domestic) cars can compete This is the biggest bunch of garbage I have ever heard, and you should be ashamed of yourselves for being so gullible and easily misled. I work in an Assembly plant, and have seen the changes internally (as it relates to quality vs. production numbers) as well as with the general public. For example, for years, Big three cars were considered to be too soft-riding, lean too much when going around a curve, and isolating you too much from road-feedback and bumps in the road. Town Cars, Cadillacs, Buicks, and the like were referred to as luxo-barges and land-yachts However, when a Lexus is described as being Ultra-quiet it is worshipped as being well built. I know that today039s modern foreign luxury cars are somewhat smaller than our big cars of yesterday, but we have many cars of comparable size and quality today. Cars have intended markets and anticipated customers that they want or hope to attract. If I am considering a DTS (smooth, quiet, luxurious), I don039t expect to be going around curves at 60-70 mph to test my vehicle039s handling limits I might buy a 039Vette or Mustang for that Look at all the SUV039s sold in this country how well do you think they can be quottossed-aroundquot before flipping over I drive like the majority of Americans on flat streets, regular freeways, with a few freeway entrance-ramps or exit ramps Do you really think that my main concern when leaving work or home is to push my car to its limits on curves and whoopee-straight-aways while burning my gas up, squealing my tires, and risking points on my record for going over 70-75 mph I don039t think foreign cars can compete with American cars for smoothness, quietness, and size for the PRICE I spend 90 of my driving time on streets or freeways and very little on S-curves. The speed limits on these curves are 30-35 mph We all drive a little faster than the posted speed limits if traffic allows, but jack-rabbits starts and taking curves at high speeds is wasteful, immature, and risky for your driving record, safety, and gas-mileage My DTS (2006) gives me more size, a comfortable smooth ride, tons of luxury features standard, great assembly quality and interior materials. and costs 20,000 to 30,000 less than a Lexus LS 460. Do you really think that I care about the 039Benz, BMW, or Lexus being able to be driven around a curve or slalom a few seconds faster or leaning a little less, or having a seam or gam a millimeter closer as as being worth that much more to give me more quotprestigequot Those cars should have more resale value if the cost that much more They go to the repair shops just like American cars Review the foreign car forums and look at some of the recent recall records of foreign cars. Look at the recent JD Power Quality rankings. Buick, Cadillac, Saturn, Mercury,(even Jaguar-you know how poor their quality rankings were before Ford bought them) and others were ahead of BMW and Mercedes, and right there with Lexus, but Americans are blinded and are followers when it comes to popular conceptions and the biased, contradictory Auto magazines the 3-series BMW costs more than my DTS. It has almost no room in the back seat area, but costs 15,000 or so more than my DTS with similar equipment. The 5-series BMW, E-Class Mercedes, or GS-series Lexus models cost 10,000821120,000 more and are no bigger inside than a Chrysler 300,DTS, Town Car, Lucerne or similar product. If you buy a LexusBMWAudiMercedes of the same or similar size (over 200 inches long),and equipment as the DTS, Town Car, or Chrysler 300, it will cost you 60,000 8211 90,000. How can the DTS be considered big and ponderous at 207 in. long, when a LS 460L is about 202 in. long and the regular LS460 198 in. or so in length. The S-class 039Benz is a little over 200 in. long but its room inside is praised and worshipped and it is 100,000. BMW039s 7-series costs 100,000, and is only six or seven in. shorter than the DTS, and the true comparison for the DTS should be simarlarly-priced 3-series or 5-series(they both give you much less room and cost much more) These cars (except the LS 460) ride much more firmly and transmit much more bumps and road surface feed-back than the DTSLucerneTown CarChrysler300. Should we give up bump-absorption for handling That is the major question Ride versus handling has always been a trade-off. Knowledgeable people and the Industry knows this GM can make a smooth-riding DTS or a great-handling Corvette or ultra-handling Z06 Corvette The better it handles, in general, the firmer the ride is going to be Lower-profile tires are also going to ride firmer, transmit more road irregularities, and allow potentially wheeltire damage. You don039t really think that a AMG 039Benz, or M5 BMW is going to cushion you from bumps and comfort you like a regular model do you Stiffer shock and springs are needed to handle quotbetterquot. In this case, better means not leaning as much, according to the car magazines Cars like the DTS, and anyone else that Delphi sold Stabili-Trak and Magnetic - Ride Control to, ride smoothly until you need to change direction quickly or go around a curve then almost instantly the shocks stiffen to minimize lean I also wish you would stop criticizing GM039s 4-speed transmission. It is DURABLE, smooth, seamless and was the pick of Bentley cars until the most recent 6-speed model was introduced One Bentley model uses the GM 4-speed trans.(it deals with 500-plus H. P.) and the other model uses the GM 6-speed model and Motor Trend indicates that they are equally well-accepted This lates Motor Trend also test a quartet of 100,000 plus luxury cars: a Maserati Quattroporte039,Lexus LS460h, S-Class 550 039Benz, and a the biggest Jaguar. The Maserati came in first place, and the vaunted Lexus-hybrid top-of - the-line model came in last, and was said to be a disappointment in performance, luxury, AND FUEL ECONOMY Motor Trend said, the wood-grain is quotA CONFUSING MAROON IN COLORquot, the buttons on the edges of the center-stack are similar in size and shape and are confusing in their layout. With 5,000 worth of handling-equipment options the car LEANED IN TURNS as much as the other three cars, and only got 15 better gas milage than the other three cars (while having two electric motors and bragging about fuel economy) and came in DEAD LAST. The Lexus was said to have almost no feedback from the road or through the steering wheel. Wake up people There are competetive American products out there if you are honest and do your research You can pay 40,000-50,000 for a Lexus ES350 or a regular BMW 3-series if the gap between dash panels is more important than your room and 15,000, but the ES350 is a re-badged Camry and the BMW is a compact with a nice engine(no better performance than a 300-hp Chevy Impala SS or Pontiac GXP engine) no room in the back seat, and 15,000 over-priced Plastic is plastic, and you touch the wood-grain every once-in-a-while My gauges and switchgear are luxurious and work fine. The only complaint I have with the DTS is the white letter and numerals on the center-stack are difficult to see in direct-sunlight at certain times of the day and should have been better thought-out. Not too bad, while saving 30,000 over a LS 460S-Class Benz7-Series BMW, because that it what it would take to get the king of room, luxury, and comfort, and feature that I have in my DTS. Wake up people The DTS is a decent car and very well aimed at it8217s target audience. Not everybody is looking for a bland generic Lexus where all there models are looking increasingly alike or a hard riding confusing overpriced BMW. The 2007 DTS I test drove was a base model with bucket seats. It8217s handling is a tad soft but the ride is very smooth and quiet. The interior quality was very good overall and I found the seat comfort better than average on a 5 hour trip. The Northstar is a good engine and sounds great when revved but it should be outputting more than 1995 power levels in 2008. Also Caddy should have fitted the 6 speed automatic to this engine which would improve performance and mileage. As it was my car average 26 MPG going 75 MPH on the highway with a few stops which isn8217t bad considering the interior room and trunk space this car offers. I also find the exterior far more flashy than many of todays stark plain generic looking cars. The manufacturers have stripped off litterally ever piece of trim and chrome on todays cars making them look like base model stripos. The DTS thankfully avoids that with a nice chrome accented bodyside molding, the distinctive Caddy taillights, the prominent sharp creased Caddy grille and lots of chrome sprinkled on the exterior. The STS is too plain in comparison and IMO doesn8217t look like a 50-60K car. I need some flash in my luxury cars. 8220Do you really think that I care about the 8216Benz, BMW, or Lexus being able to be driven around a curve or slalom a few seconds faster or leaning a little less8230 We all drive a little faster than the posted speed limits if traffic allows, but jack-rabbits starts and taking curves at high speeds is wasteful, immature, and risky for your driving record, safety, and gas-mileage8221 I had to duck when I read this 8212 USluxuryman almost hit me during the 8220jackrabbit starts8221 part when he started swinging his cane. I like my 2007 DTS and have no complaints what so ever. Actually I do not like FWD but that is not a Caddy problem it is an oddball drive system that was imported to America. I like my 2003 GMC 2500HD too which has all the drive line parts in the right place as does my 2002 Harley Softail. If I am feeling feisty 95 CI, 100 HP, 100 FT LBS of torque in 650 pounds can leave me satisfied. If I want to go play in the snow at Lake Tahoe the GMC is wonderful. But if I feel like relaxing and enjoying a drive the Caddy is the obvious choice even if it can8217t do everything like some lame brained car tester thinks it should. Perhaps he will let me borrow his creation for evaluation some time. I can assure you I will find things wrong with it. Oh, I forgot, he doesn8217t make cars, he just complains about them. Receive updates on the best of TheTruthAboutCars mcs - I pretty much remember and could re-create any significant code I8217ve ever created. That8217s the kind of stuff you. Re: Why Do We Still Applaud the Destruction of 1969 Dodge Chargersgolden2husky - Chrome engine compartments 8211 ugh. You think asking what finish should be on the bolts borders on OCD I was at a car. Re: Why Do We Still Applaud the Destruction of 1969 Dodge Chargers415s30 - I thought there were only 4 Venenos, cool. I like the Sesto Elemento, it8217s like an F40, make those. Re: Why Do We Still Applaud the Destruction of 1969 Dodge ChargersJimZ - I was at Autorama this morning. This car they jumped is a decrepit piece of junk, not a realistic candidate for preservation or. Latest Junkyard Finds view all Latest Editorials view all New Car Research Piston Slap Articles Hammer Time Articles Vellum Venom Articles Generation Why Articles Avoidable Contact Articles Contributors Matthew Guy, Canada Seth Parks, United States Ronnie Schreiber, United States Bozi Tatarevic, United States Chris Tonn, United States Corey Lewis, United States Moderators Adam Tonge, United States Kyree Williams, United Statessirengus nam, ar i darb eigoje, danai mintys pradeda suktis apie kiemo aplink. Keletas landafto architekts patarim kaip aplink susiplanuoti patiems. Prie pradedant galvoti apie glynus arba alpinariumus, svarbiausia yra pirmi ingsniai tai funkcinis teritorijos planavimas. Nesuskirsius teritorijos tinkamas zonas, augalai pasodinami ten, kur j visai nereikia, er iltnamis pastatomas toje vietoje, kur jis Skaityti daugiau. Tlf. 370 608 16327 El. p. Infoskraidantikamera. lt Interneto svetain: skraidantikamera. lt Socialiniai tinklai: facebook paskyra Apraymas: Filmuojame 8211 fotografuojame i 70 8211 100 meter høyere enn i verdensklasse. Sukuriame HD raikos nuotraukas ir video siuetus. Silom pasli, sod, mik, medelyn apiros nuotraukas i aukio. Daugiau ms darb pavyzdi rasite interneto Skaityti daugiau. Profesionalios technins, sodo arnos (make kaina) PVC-lamper: PVC, slitesterk slitasje, slitasje slitasje og polysterio-silisiumsprayer med ultravioletinamenter. Spindulamper med kokosprøytemidler er 58 skersmens, 16 mm, 8211 kaina 0,90 Lm 34 skersmens, 19 mm. 8211 kaina 1,20 lm 1 kol. skersmens, 25 mm, 8211 kaina 2,30 Ltm Profesionalios PVC auktos kokybs Skaityti daugiau.